In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Tom Lavery, CEO & Founder at Jiminny, a conversation intelligence platform that helps companies create high performance culture. Join us for an insightful conversation about founding a company that feels both local and international, the right time to start selling, and advice for emerging SaaS founders.
If you missed episode #201, check it out here: The Rise of RevOps: Biggest Mistakes with Seamus Ruiz-Earle
What You’ll Learn
- The expanding market opportunity in SaaS
- Emphasizing local identity for an org
- Slack etiquette and best practices
- Looking at alternative ways to grow
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Show Agenda and Timestamps
- About Tom Lavery & Jiminny [1:50]
- The journey of building Jiminny [6:07]
- The right time to start selling [8:13]
- Leading a hybrid, international team [11:52]
- Advice for emerging founders [17:58]
- Paying it forward [21:03]
- Sam’s Corner [23:35]
About Tom Lavery & Jiminny [1:50]
Sam Jacobs: Welcome to the Sales Hacker podcast. We’ve got a conversation with Tom Jiminny who is the co-founder and CEO of a company called Jiminny. It’s in the conversation intelligence space. We talk about why capturing every conversation is important. We talk about the struggles of taking your product to market.
Now, before we get there, we’ve got three sponsors for the show. The first is Pavilion. Pavilion’s the key to getting more out of your career. Take advantage of the Pavilion for Teams corporate membership.
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Without further ado, let’s listen to my conversation with Tom Lavery.
Prior to starting Jiminny, Tom was the SVP at Reward Gateway which he exited and has since been through two additional private equity backed buyouts. Tom, tell us who you are and give us the growth trajectory of the business.
Tom Lavery: Absolutely. Jiminny was born out of me being an SVP of sales and really seeing how I could help my team better. But most, most people in SaaS or tech would be recording their calls or meetings in some form, shape or form and that’s what Jiminny does, record, transcribe and analyze your meetings. But it’s really what you do with that data which is key. We compete with the Gongs and the Choruses of this world every day. We’re very customer driven, and it’s how we help them use that data to make a difference in their business that’s what makes us unique.
Sam Jacobs: How’d you get into sales?
Tom Lavery: My dad sold cars. He was a GM, and I spent my whole childhood in car showrooms. I’ve always been exposed to that sales environment. I started in B2C, quickly got into B2B working at a tiny start-up in Notting Hill. Reward Gateway, it was HR software. It started off doing perks, then it moved into recognition. They’re hugely successful today helping thousands of companies around the world.
The journey of building Jiminny [6:07]
Sam Jacobs: As a non-technical person, how did you make the leap to become a founder?
Tom Lavery: Five years in, I think I know what I’m doing, whereas the four years previously I was making up as I go along. James, my co-founder, he’s a very talented back-end engineer. You’ve got to have someone technical with you.
Take risks and throw yourself in. You never have all the answers. It’s trial and error along the way. You just have to believe in your idea, and you make many mistakes as everyone does, but it’s turning out all right in the end.
Sam Jacobs: What were some of your biggest mistakes?
Tom Lavery: Building a video conference the same time Zoom blew up. That’s a pretty big one.
And the way we moved to an integrations model, and that definitely changed our growth. We were doubling each year still, but in terms of getting real product market fit, that was definitely a mistake. But I think the important thing is to realize it and then to make the change.
The right time to start selling [8:13]
Sam Jacobs: When is the right time to begin selling? What advice would you give to people that are pre-revenue, but aren’t sure when to start?
Tom Lavery: It depends on your vertical and the space that you’re in. Let’s say SaaS, for example, the quicker you sell it, the more you really understand if it’s going to stick. It doesn’t matter how many times you test or whatever you do, when you give it to users, users break things. The reality of how it works out there is just completely different to you and the team building it.
I speak to a lot of founders all the time. They’re always looking at, “Oh, we’re just going to give it another three months and perfect it a little bit more.” Your product’s never perfect and it’s never finished. You just got to get it out there.
Leading a hybrid, international team [11:52]
Sam Jacobs: Do you think it’s been an advantage or a disadvantage or no impact that you started Jiminny from London?
Tom Lavery: I was actually still in Boston when we actually first incorporated the company. But 40% of our revenue comes from the U.S. still now. Having boots on the ground and making the brand bigger is all part of our plan. America is always the biggest market. At some point you’re going to want to conquer it.
Sam Jacobs: What else have you learned about building and leading and running a team?
Tom Lavery: It’s a different world now we’re coming out of COVID. In the UK, everyone’s almost back to normal, but because you’ve got this hybrid approach, which most people have to have now. We’ve been remote since day one. You just have to work 10 times harder at everything, especially internal communications. You have to over communicate, just making sure that you are spending that time, making sure that everyone’s engaged and doing check-ins. Work really hard at internal communications to make sure it’s a real team.
We have house rules at Jiminny. We have no internal email. If we are using Slack, we don’t send internal email unless the customer’s on it. All-hands meetings are always on video each week. We have Slack etiquette, 15 rules that everyone can understand how we can use Slack and best practice. Like, if you’re going to add someone to the channel, make sure that you DM them and tell them why you’re adding them to a channel first. Sending one message instead of nine, little things like that just distract people less can make a difference.
Advice for emerging founders [17:58]
Sam Jacobs: One of the things that you talk about a lot is imploring people to take risks. How can they maximize the likelihood that they achieve success?
Tom Lavery: You are always working on your own self-awareness. The more you are yourself and the more human you are, especially in business, it gets you much further.
Sometimes you do have to think outside the box. We all know how the recruitment market is at the moment “I will take that job because it’s paying me an extra $10,000,” but is it actually the best thing for my career? Am I going to get the best education? Am I going to be working with the best people? Sometimes it’s not about the money or the package. It’s hard for young AEs to see through the noise of that. The value you get from the type of company you are working in and the type of people you end up working around or get exposed to is probably more important than any package. Make sure you pick the right company and the right people rather than just go for the money.
Sam Jacobs: You’ve said you think running the same playbook can often lead you into trouble. Unpack that for us.
Tom Lavery: If you’re starting a business or growing a team, you’ve got to think differently until you’re into that space where you can really accelerate. So that little bit before an A round, that’s a very difficult stage of getting traction and getting funding, but look at alternative ways to grow sometimes.
Paying it forward [21:03]
Sam Jacobs: We like to pay it forward a little bit. Who are the people, books, or ideas that have had the biggest impact on you?
Tom Lavery: My old CEO has a huge impact. He ran a marketing design agency for 10 years, started Reward Gateway, just watching him operate for five years in his pocket was just amazing. Glenn Elliott. He now does a lot of consulting in private equity at Tenzing.
Sam Jacobs: Tom, if folks want to reach out to you, what’s the best way to get in touch?
Tom Lavery: Just connect with me on LinkedIn, or you can find me on Twitter @TomLavery7.
Sam’s Corner [23:35]
Sam Jacobs: Hey, folks. Sam’s corner. I really enjoyed that conversation with Tom. It just speaks to the expanding market opportunity in SaaS that there’s not just only one winner. There’s lots of other opportunities in that space. There’s lots of opportunities to create interesting differentiation, interesting variations on product, or interesting emphasis on geographic identity. Jiminny is a UK company with engineers that are in Bulgaria. There’s all kinds of ways to build big companies.
One mistake I make is I continuously underestimate the size of markets. Time and time again, companies stick around, they continue to work on their product, they continue to talk to their customers, and ultimately they see success. It’s a great lesson. Tom’s building a great company in Jiminny, and we’re excited to watch them grow.
Don’t miss episode 203!
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